BIG LICHENSTEINER ANDRE WILLE WINS AIC JIA XING in English Forum Forum

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BIG LICHENSTEINER ANDRE WILLE WINS AIC JIA XING

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williambegg	BIG LICHENSTEINER ANDRE WILLE WINS AIC JIA XING	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1165 (05/29/09 02:39:22) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Remove this ad Hi Skaters, Andre Willie X- Tech has in the last month proven to be somewhat of a breakaway expert, winning the Lichenstein Criterium in a Breakaway with Christophe Luginbuhl Bont, then in the 10 men initial breakaway in the WIC in Incheon to finish a creditable 7th, now with his win in Jia Xing 40 km AIC he will go to the top of the Asianic Inline cup overall, as will the Indonesian Lady Eri Marina Yo X-Tech , with her 3rd placing today. While Willie was a hero in the mens race Guo Dan showed her class by sticking in the mens first pack, till Willie & Teamate Martin Thaler Austria along with Zing Chong Yu China broke away after 8 km & going into the last 4 km round Willie alone for the last 10km had a 1 min 20 sec lead on Thaler & Chong Yu with another 2 minutes back to the chasing bunch of 8, both Beetschen & Ashenbacher tried to get clear in the last laps, but could not. Zing Chong You Twin Cam outlasted Thaler to get 2nd, while Yang Song China National team X Tech won the bunch sprint for 4th with Andreas Beetschen Switzerland 5th & the Korean Tiger Kim Bum Suk 6th with 7th Xin He China ( T.B.C. Provisional ) then Chinese Taipei skaters Donglin Xie 8th, & Bofu Wang 9th, while Roman Ashenbacher Switzerland rounded out the top 10. Unofficiall, Provisional, till the video re check later from 10th to 20th 11th Diasuke Kazamaki Japan 12th Tiam Shu Dai China ( possibly 7th T.B.C. many numbers fell off during race & lack of experienced officials to identify, so not to hold up results ) 13th Number 60 China TBC. 14th Dong Shen Bin China 15th Muhammad Arief Rachman Indonesia 16th Xio Yue Ding China 17th Jun Yue Huang China 18th Johannas Wihardja Indonesia 19th Zhan Xia Yu China 20th Mohit Royal India ? Bertrand Chew Singapore ? Rohit Royal India ? Shen Xu Dong China A close big 2nd Bunch sprint with 3 ladies involved also, so particularly in the area of 18 to 20th yet to be confirmed. Ladies 40 km 1/ Guo Dan - China. 2/ Yan Yong Hong - China 3/ Eri Marina Yo - Indonesia 4/ Pan Jia Xin - China 5/ Yu Fu Ying China 6/ Kim Ames USA. A very difficult race to organize at the last minute & a high ranking official turning up saw the the mens 500 meters heats run, but not a final, but the girls final decided, so the nine mens qualifyers, will all be awarded 5 AIC bonus points each, with 3 heats of 10 run, the fastest 3 Qualified. But at the end of the day with a 4 km & 8 km race & about 1,000 competitors skating was the winner. Bill Last Edited By: williambegg 05/29/09 10:19:13. Edited 2 times.
ultrask8	Great results but - lame having the women race in the mens race	#1	[-]
Posts: 632 (05/29/09 05:50:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	. Last Edited By: ultrask8 05/29/09 05:55:06. Edited 1 times.
ultrask8	Great results but - lame having the women race in the mens race	#2	[-]
Posts: 633 (05/29/09 05:54:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Great results and good numbers for the China AIC - but allowing the women to be mixed in with the men is a bad precedent in my humble opinion. Does not happen in WIC and for good reason. Otherwise seems like a nice stage for the new AIC and will help establish and encourage Asian skating! Of course congrats to Eri for her third place , and to Kim for her 6th - way to go! Special props to the AIC organizers - our own Bill Begg among them! Btw where did Allan Chandra finish?
williambegg	AIC	#3	[-]
Posts: 1167 (05/29/09 10:33:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Hi UltrA 3 hour window of opportunity only, for a small number of Girls by themselves would have been very lonely & learnt nothing & the result would have been the same. Even kim was giving a wave to the crowd as she went by in a group of 3 or 4 men, I think the girls all realized the time restaints & they all got to race a race, when a big government official arrives & plans get slightly changed it makes things difficult for everyone, but we have had a great Bunch of people Like Tiger, Diasuke, Kim, Mucho man, eri & the Indian boys supporting the events to help get it underway, that they have stood beside us & understood that we are trying to create something for the betterment of skating. WEll Allan won the first heat of the 500 sprint, perhaps he was saving himself for the final, but the governer arriving & the police every 10 meters leaving the track, we could not fit it in, the nine finalists will all be awarded 5 bonus points each, it was one of many challengers, before we get a man on the moon. Cheers Bill
ultrask8	time	#4	[-]
Posts: 634 (05/29/09 14:58:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I understand well the special situation of time constraints - especially when big wig politicians get into the mix! I think the positive effects of the AIC will rebound throughout Asia, for sure this type of regional competition has been needed for a long time. Countries with depth in skating like Indonesia, lots of skaters but VERY difficult to get to Europe, AIC events closer to home will bring a sliver of hope that the skaters have a chance to compete on an international level. Even bringing AIC to NZ / Aus does similar good things , so you are on the right track, keep going!
unicycle1234.ellisedge		#5	[-]
Posts: 5 (05/29/09 15:30:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I wonder what's the big deal having men and women racing together. The relative placement would not be impacted (theoretically). It is the same as having masters racing with world class. Maybe they are separated so the masters do not embarrass the world class:-) I personally would love to see women skater kicking men's ass in marathon events, it would get more people watching and shorten the total event time. Even to have cyclist and skater racing together is not a bad ideal either, it's all relative placement that counts.
oldkiwi		#6	[-]
Posts: 550 (05/29/09 17:15:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Remove this ad My experience is that you can have woman "Hiding" in the pack and not taking a turn when a group works together. Basically a free ride. Yeah i know a guy could do this too, but anyone in a breakaway that has a freebee hanging in without pulling usually tells them to take a turn or "piss-off". Think of it this way..If Nicole skated with the mens pack, she would complete a marathon in about 1hr 2 min and the other woman drafting only amoung themselves would come home 8 minutes later. You can substitute Nathalie for Nicole and the result would be the same....a guaranteed winner of the person drafting the faster pack. It is not an even playing field. Masters can be the same way...I know of some masters with very impressive results because they can draft at a HIGH pace, but when forced to work, they blow a gasket. a 42km individual Time Trial would be a true indication of who's the best over a marathon distance, but RACING includes the skill of doing the "least" amount of work needed, especially if you are a sprinter. cheers johnny
unicycle1234.ellisedge		#7	[-]
Posts: 6 (05/29/09 17:57:22) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	But if the other woman skater is as good as Nicole, why doesn't she join the same men's pack and draft just the same? If both of them can pull, no problem, if neither pulls, they all get dropped (then it becomes a women's pack), and if one pulls and the other don't, the pack keeps the strong one, as it should, so the strong one still wins. I just don't see the problem. Again, the issue is not about trying to compare skaters of one group to another. Just think of the men's pack as gust of wind, it benefit everyone who are good at catching wind and reading the wind (sailing analogy). As stated racing include skills/strategy/work, isn't getting a free ride and able to stay there the right mix of all three? Unicycle
oldkiwi		#8	[-]
Posts: 552 (05/29/09 19:39:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I just doesn't work! You can join the girls pack if you want to. cheers johnny
ultrask8	h	#9	[-]
Posts: 635 (05/29/09 20:12:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The biggest potential problem : Some girl has a goon squad or a few guys who "act as her teammate(s)" , effing up any other girls and doing all they can to help "their girl". Now is that fair racing ? Fair to the girls that don't have some guys helping them?
unicycle1234.ellisedge		#10	[-]
Posts: 7 (05/31/09 21:29:34) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	oldkiwi, clearly you don't have kids:-) ultra, true this may be the case, but I think no one is allowed to push people forward, so the helped girl will still have to skate to keep up with the "goon squad" pack. If the other girl is strong enough, she could just join the pack at the end, I don't think the "goon squad" could dislodge her (push her out?) The point is for two equally strong women, the advantage would be the same for both to take advantage of, even in the case "goon squad". I may be wrong (and very possible since it is not allowed in more serious races) but I'm not convinced why:-)
oldkiwi		#11	[-]
Posts: 553 (06/01/09 04:56:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Actually my son will be 21 in September! The problem is CHEATING...I was passed at the Berlin Marathon by a Guy "towing" a kid. The Kid was hooked onto the Guys hands and getting towed along. Needless to say the Kid won his grade and got a prize. Same thing can easily happen with the girls amoung the boys. A strong Man can easily push along a team mate from the girls team (without being detected by officials) who could then win for the team and collect prizes, money etc, whereas the Guy may not have been strong enought to finish inside the top 25 in his classification. End result...some money to share amoung the "Team", but it is "Dirty Money". It Just Doesn't work with the big packs in Europe. Reminds me of my "dodgy" days racing in Europe back when Adam was a Cowboy. At the French Friendship Cup, we were getting dogged by a couple Italians in the finish sprint. Cavaragi(spelling) who got 3rd in the Cinque Campanili that year behind Lollobrigeda had a goon grab me 3 races in a row. Me and a couple mates came up with a cunning plan. To skew the overall standings, we befriended a young french guy who was running about 10th overall. In the next 3 races, we sheapard him along and pushed him to the front to get points away from the Italians. The Italians dropped in the general classification and the Young French guy went up to about 5th overall. That was cheating...but we had enough of being on the receiving end. This can easily happen in a Big Race with girls amoungst the boys. A gentle hand on the back can save 60% or more energy. cheers johnny
unicycle1234.ellisedge		#12	[-]
Posts: 8 (06/01/09 09:50:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Remove this ad Oldkiwi, that make sense...as you indicated this applies to non-mixed races, so it is not a new problem created because of mixing different groups. The monetary incentive applies to the cheaters in the single group race (even more so because man get more prize?). I wonder how do they deal with it in WIC/world championship ? It is even worse if you could buy off some weak guy to take out your main competition so you can win, and give some money to him as neither could get any if the strong guy wins. I've heard such accusation in ice short track as they have a few strong counties and there are many heats, quarter final etc and many opportunities to do this so one country can win.

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BIG LICHENSTEINER ANDRE WILLE WINS AIC JIA XING

BIG LICHENSTEINER ANDRE WILLE WINS AIC JIA XING